Home > Environment, Europe, History, India, Politics, Religion, Uncategorized > Roma Gypsies face Northern Ireland ethnic violence

Roma Gypsies face Northern Ireland ethnic violence


A frugal Romani Gypsy Camp

A frugal Romani Gypsy Camp

Police said the racist attacks started last week, with gangs smashing house windows and attacking cars. The violence flared again on Monday when youths hurling bottles and Nazi salutes attacked an anti-racism rally called to support the migrants.

Belfast City Council press officer Mark Ashby said the majority of the victims were Roma, or Gypsies, from Romania.

Marian Mandache, from the Romanian Gypsy NGO Romani Crisis, said the Northern Ireland violence was the latest in a disturbing trend of attacks across Europe.

“Starting with Italy in 2007, there have been waves of … racist attacks against Roma,” said Mandache. “Afterwards, there were attacks in the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania.” (via Gypsies face Northern Ireland ethnic violence).

Hitler was never alone

Hitler’s biggest mistake – he lost the war.

The genocide with which his regime was charged with was also carried out against the Native Americans in the USA, the Australian aborigines, in Congo by the Belgians. Post colonial Governments in Kenya and India have ignored the cover-up of the millions killed by the colonial rulers – in the Mau Mau operations in Kenya or the 1857 War in India.

The Romani Gypsies Sinti have been a favored European target for the last 500 years – by the Vatican, by the Protestant Church, by monarchies and by Republican Governments. In war and and in peace.

Their crime. They civilized (?) Europe. No less.

A 'campaign' to remove Roma Gypsies from camping sites in Britain

A 'campaign' to remove Roma Gypsies from camping sites in Britain

Why Europe continues to demonize and persecute the Roma

Despite the immense contribution by the Roma Gypsies to European culture and life. Is it because: –

  1. They have a different lifestyle – which is migratory and frugal. They do not wish to have permanent homes, too many possessions or jobs. They prefer living in wagons, with skills and trade that they possess.
  2. They have not ‘integrated’ into the White, Christian, European social system. They wish to remain ‘different’.
  3. They stick out like sore thumbs – in a Europe where the Jews have been annihilated, where  descendants of the African slave populations have been exterminated and the Islamic population (past and present) is not tolerated. In such a situation, the Roma Gypsies have not only survived, but have regrown (after Hitler’s concentration camps killed them by millions).

Since when, are these qualities a crime.

Recent history

A few months ago, the Italian police started a campaign of racial profiling and persecution of the Roma – based on an isolated murder of an Italian.

This disproportionate response against a community, to a crime (I am making an assumption of guilt) by a Roma individual, smacks of persecution, racism and pogroms. After all, this is how Hitler and Mussolini too started their campaigns.

In Northern Ireland, the Roma Gypsy number less than 1000. What threat, what problem could they be to the nearly 2 million people of Northern Ireland?

In Britain,

For over twenty years Erith Borough Council continually tried to remove the gypsies from the Marshes. The Council’s eviction policy even made the National Press. In 1948 the Daily Mirror ‘Ruggles’ cartoon strip featured the plight of the Belvedere Gypsy community.

Finally, in 1956 Erith Borough Council got its way. The Council minutes for that year record that “over 700 persons and 280 ramshackle structures have been removed…The clearance could now be said to be complete” thus ending over 100 years of Gypsy history living on Belvedere Marshes.

By 1965, following a campaign led by Norman Dodds, MP for Erith and Crayford, the Government commissioned a national census survey of the Gypsy community living in Great Britain. Sadly, Norman Dodds died in 1965, but James Wellbeloved who became the MP for the same seat took up Dodds’ campaign and finally, in 1968 Parliament passed the Caravans Sites Act. This Act placed a duty on all local authorities in England and Wales to provide sites on which Gypsies could place their caravans and stay, either temporarily or permanently. However this duty was repealed by the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1995. (from Gypsies In Bexley: A Hundred Years On The Belvedere Marshes By Simon McKeon, 13/07/2006, from Untold London).

Unarmed, and a few of them!

PS

To all those who wanted to pin the blame for this wave of violence at the doorsteps of the Roma, better find a new and better story. It was reported that Indians, Muslims and the Poles were also warned. Leave Northern Ireland, or else.

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  1. riss
    June 24, 2009 at 2:53 am

    you what? “in a Europe where the Jews have been annihilated, where descendants of the African slave populations have been exterminated and the Islamic population (past and present) is not tolerated.” Er – is this a different europe from the one that exists in the real world, circa 2009?you know – that one that’s massively ethnically diverse… go to bethnal green (or indeed anywhere in north west london) and say the jews have been annihilated. or any suburb of paris and say that the descendants of the African slave populations have been exterminated. Go down the edgware road and tell me that islam is not tolerated. or leeds. or bradford.

    as for why people dislike a group that don’t pay taxes, don’t integrate into the community, don’t speak the language of their guest country, and are seemingly the origins of most petty crime in any area they descend upon, and yet this same group demand the community supports them, demands that specialist teachers are provided for their offspring, demand they have unfettered access to the same services as the rest of us but don’t pay their way? oh i f****** wonder why they’re so hated…

    Roma originate from central europe – there is no history of them within the uk. Uk citizens have to pay through the nose (through taxes etc) for the same services, yet these c*** can appear anywhere they want, set up their camps, totally dividing entire communities, demand these things, and then get you f******* bleeding heart liberals jumping to their defence when the people (btw – they were the people you guys would have been defending 10 years ago, although,to be fair, you probably patronisingly refered to them as ‘proles’) decide to give them a message, and yet you wonder why they’re hated. To quote hot fuzz: ‘gypsy scum’. now f*** off back to your c******* soya bean curd and knitting circle and conserve your limited vegtabalist energy for the next ‘outrage’ that get’s you all frothy.

  2. June 24, 2009 at 12:02 pm

    “in a Europe where the Jews have been annihilated, where descendants of the African slave populations have been exterminated and the Islamic population (past and present) is not tolerated.” Er – is this a different europe from the one that exists in the real world, circa 2009?you know – that one that’s massively ethnically diverse

    In 1939, there were 17 million Jews in the world, and by 1945 only 11 million. What do you think happened to these 6 million ‘missing’ Jews? And in which part of the world do you think this happened?

    (BTW, No prizes for guessing correctly).

    Since, the “Jewish Problem” was solved by Hitler (there are hardly 1.5 million Jews left in Europe – out of a European population of 800 million in East, West, North and South Europe). Europe has no problems, anymore with the Jews.
    The Atlantic Slave trade captured, kidnapped, sold, bought, recaptured – an estimated 13 million African slaves. Where did you think these 13 million Africans disappeared? Who did you think was behind this ‘disappearance’?

    Islamic rule started in Europe from 7th century onwards – and continued in parts of Europe till 20th century. How come Muslims are less than 4% of the European population? And we all know how much Muslims are welcome in Europe today!
    So, Riss, this just doesn’t wash! Just because Europe has not slaughtered millions in the few decades on its own soil, does not mean the historical record will get washed and wished away!

    as for why people dislike a group that don’t pay taxes, don’t integrate into the community, don’t speak the language of their guest country, and are seemingly the origins of most petty crime in any area they descend upon, and yet this same group demand the community supports them, demands that specialist teachers are provided for their offspring, demand they have unfettered access to the same services as the rest of us but don’t pay their way? oh i f****** wonder why they’re so hated…

    a group that don’t pay taxes. Now this is interesting. Do you have any data on what the average Roma Gypsy earn, on which they need to pay taxes? There is a huge number of non-Roma Gypsies who dont pay taxes, because of the prevalent laws. And if the Roma Gypsies should be paying taxes, why are they not prosecuted under European laws? There is no need for racist, extra-legal attacks.
    don’t integrate into the community. I always thought that the West prided itself on its record of individual rights, reason, enlightenment, et al. Why does Europe want everyone to be the same? Why cant they respect the right of people to speak, live, eat and dress differently. Is European culture so fragile that when 1% speak, live, eat and dress differently, it becomes a threat to the glorious European culture?

    the language of their guest country – After being a part of Europe for nearly a 1000 years, are they still guests in Europe. Strange idea!
    origins of most petty crime – If this is true, I am sure Europe has adequate laws to deal with this – and not descend to hate crimes.

    Roma originate from central europe – there is no history of them within the uk.

    Roma do not originate from Central Europe!

    Get your facts right – before you learn to hate people. Your hate is based on prejudice, misinformation, zero data, peeves.

    Uk citizens have to pay through the nose (through taxes etc) for the same services, yet these c*** can appear anywhere they want, set up their camps, totally dividing entire communities, demand these things, and then get you f******* bleeding heart liberals jumping to their defence when the people (btw – they were the people you guys would have been defending 10 years ago, although,to be fair, you probably patronisingly refered to them as ‘proles’) decide to give them a message, and yet you wonder why they’re hated. To quote hot fuzz: ‘gypsy scum’. now f*** off back to your c******* soya bean curd and knitting circle and conserve your limited vegtabalist energy for the next ‘outrage’ that get’s you all frothy.

    Riss – It is sad to see you descend to the level of invective, swear words, and your defense and support for uncivilized behaviour against 1000 unarmed people just shows that European civility is less than skin deep.
    Data you don’t have for any of your claims and allegations against the Roma Gypsies.

  3. WTF
    June 26, 2009 at 6:03 pm

    Anuraag Sanghi //

    Boy are you selective with your history. I see where you get your figures from, but as there were non censuses done in the 30’s on a pan-european scale – they are a bit shoddy.

    1.5 million Jews left? More than that went to Israel.

    Muslim rule in Europe from 7C? Well a Muslim invasion that went all the way to Paris & took 800 years to beat back.

    You might as well decry India & Pakistan & Bangladesh for having low numbers of Europeans despite rule from the mid 18C. And they didn’t even have to invade!

    Oddly enough Gandhi didn’t want the Brits in his country! Was Gandhi an intolerant racist? I think not.

    Then think on about the slavery that STILL continues in Africa, who sold the slaves, the fact it went on in India, China, South America (OK the Aztecs only ate them).

    What a lot of rotters ALL our ancestors were.

    Show me one Euopean country, or indeed Asian country that hasn’t been repeatedly invaded with slaves taken & massacres & looting of the land.

    The truly odd thing is with comments like yours is that whilst standing up for the rights & customs of immigrants or visitors to this country, you then decry “loutish” or insensitive behaviour of Brits abroad

    Grow up from this infantile hatred of Europe.

  4. July 7, 2009 at 5:20 pm

    WTF –

    I like your initials. Initially I thought it was invective – but looking at your comments, I realized WTF stands for Without Truth or Fact.

    On your comments and reactions …

    Boy are you selective with your history.

    I am so glad that you could see this. Are you disappointed that I did not select pieces of Western propaganda which is passed of as history in many cases?

    I see where you get your figures from, but as there were non censuses done in the 30’s on a pan-european scale – they are a bit shoddy. 1.5 million Jews left? More than that went to Israel.

    Talk is cheap. Do you have better numbers, sources or data?

    You might as well decry India & Pakistan & Bangladesh for having low numbers of Europeans despite rule from the mid 18C. And they didn’t even have to invade!

    Any data on how Europeans in India were persecuted in India?

    Oddly enough Gandhi didn’t want the Brits in his country! Was Gandhi an intolerant racist? I think not.

    Gandhiji did not want the British Raj!

    Do you have any source where Gandhiji said that India would not let Britishers to live in Indias as Indian citizens.

    Then think on about the slavery that STILL continues in Africa, who sold the slaves, the fact it went on in India, China, South America (OK the Aztecs only ate them).

    Do you have any address of a slave market in Africa – where people are bought and sold – and the Courts in that country protect the ‘right’ of the people to own, buy, sell other people.

    What a lot of rotters ALL our ancestors were.

    How you wish that was true?

    Show me one Euopean country, or indeed Asian country that hasn’t been repeatedly invaded with slaves taken & massacres & looting of the land.

    Are you talking about captives or slaves? Do you have any source about Indian slave markets? I have not found any – or found anyone who has found any.

  5. WTF
    August 6, 2009 at 12:50 am

    Anuraag Sanghi

    How do you live at night? What kind of racist anti western bile possesses you.

    Your blog is about unwelcome immigrants, & yet you juxtapose(look it up) this with unwelcome immigrants in the USA, Australia , Germany et al!

    “Oddly enough Gandhi didn’t want the Brits in his country! Was Gandhi an intolerant racist? I think not.”

    “Gandhiji did not want the British Raj!”

    The British were immigrants WHO OWNED India. No invasion, no shots fired nothing. Gandhi didn’t just want the British out, but a complete abdication of power. On this basis, according to your views, just because ” foreigners” (though many were born there & Indian) were smarter & worked harder than indigenees, & owned ,& controlled almost everything, Gandhi was a racist, because he discriminated because of the colour of their skin!

    Oddly enough, contemporaneously, Hitler rose to power, because a similar, non indigenous, non assimilated race controlled, almost all the law, finance, & media in Germany. How very odd you don’t see the similarity.

    I find it odd that you rely on western “propaganda” for your “statistics & facts”, when you clearly don’t trust it.

    Here is some more propaganda to soothe you re Indian slavers past & present, & queries about numbers ( possibly, you never considered Muslims to be Indian – But surely you’re not that bigotted!).

    Current http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/slavery/cover.html
    Past http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Nsh8NHDQHlcC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=Asian+slavery&source=bl&ots=WpdLRcQlDQ&sig=-40NuvwbSxr9qsCI2Iobtl-lqfI&hl=en&ei=G59gSoWCENiMjAfj4azADg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery#Indian_subcontinent
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery#Sub-Saharan_Africa
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa
    http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2007/02/12/hidden-apartheid
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhand_Path
    http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/lapin2.htm

    I don’t even want to get into the obscenity of the Hindu caste system, & the treatement of the Dalits, the type of people the thuggees were, or the abomination of suttee.

    Of course, I’m quizzical why you have such a strong sense of good & evil, when I’m not aware such concepts exist in Eastern philosophy, other than the interplay of light & dark.

    As for your ludicrous remarks about slave markets – DUH! Possibly you can furnish me with the names of all 6 million Holocaust victims – that would be a 1st for anyone & gratefully received by the world!!!!!

    Hell, the British killed more Irish than that – there’s no memorial to them in London!!!

    Possibly, you shouldn’t just get your facts from the internet! Even I’ve edited wikipedia etc. All there is is opinion – show me hard copy source documents – I mean where are the physical documents!!! You take opinion, & repeat them as fact – it doesn’t exist, & you can’t will it into existence.

    I believe, your heart is in the right place, but you’re either very young, or middle aged & your wife has left you. Calm Down.

    If you even half believe the theory of evolution ( & it is a theory with an awful lot of conflicting views), you’d know that none of us would be here without some savagery within our gene pool.

    Oh yes – I’m Irish -700 years of occupation, the loss of the language, the loss of ownership, the loss of religion, the massacres, the starvation, – don’t tell me about suffering, but if you knew squat about British social history, you’d know that the British people also truly suffered too through the ages. It’s still happening today!

    Read a little, read a lot – then head towards the light.

  6. August 22, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    O Great Master! Salud! And Saludos!

    I know you are testing me, in your Great and Benign Wisdom!

    The references that you give as ‘evidence’ of slavery are complete red-herrings! I am amazed at the cleverness and wisdom with which you set these traps for me, O Great Master!!

    Reference No.1

    http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/slavery/cover.html

    This story is clearly about how parents are selling their children for money – which does happen in India! But I beg of you to give me one law in India which says that this is legal, O Great Master!! In your great wisdom, you know, O Great Master, that European and US Courts, Parliaments gave State Protection to slavery.

    Did the Indian Supreme Court uphold the rights of the seller and buyer (like the US Supreme Court did)! May I have some references O Great Master!!

    Ref No. 2 from Google Books

    From Slavery & South Asian history By Indrani Chatterjee, Richard Maxwell Eaton

    Most of the slavery references deal with: –

    1. Tax offenders, in the custody of the State, i.e. prisoners, whose labour is being auctioned. O Great master, in the modern and paragon country of the West, called the USA, as the following extract shows, prisoners are used by multinational and the same practice continues

    At least 37 states have legalized the contracting of prison labor by private corporations that mount their operations inside state prisons. The list of such companies contains the cream of U.S. corporate society: IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T, Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom’s, Revlon, Macy’s, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores, and many more. All of these businesses are excited about the economic boom generation by prison labor. Just between 1980 and 1994, profits went up from $392 million to $1.31 billion. Inmates in state penitentiaries generally receive the minimum wage for their work, but not all; in Colorado, they get about $2 per hour, well under the minimum. And in privately-run prisons, they receive as little as 17 cents per hour for a maximum of six hours a day, the equivalent of $20 per month. The highest-paying private prison is CCA in Tennessee, where prisoners receive 50 cents per hour for what they call “highly skilled positions.” At those rates, it is no surprise that inmates find the pay in federal prisons to be very generous. There, they can earn $1.25 an hour and work eight hours a day, and sometimes overtime. They can send home $200-$300 per month.

    The second form of slavery mentioned here is the one that is carried out by foreign invaders – from the Middle East (who happened to be Muslim) and from Europe (who happened to be Christians). These were foreign enslavers who came to India to capture Indians and sell them into foreign markets. So, India was a source for the capture of slaves.

    But there is no mention of any Indian king who upheld the right of the slave master over the slave. There is no mention of slave traders and slave markets where humans beings were bought and sold. There is no mention of Indian Courts upholding slavery! There is no reference of any ancient Indian texts which approve of or promote slaver. Like they were in the Great Paragon Country of the West, the US of A till a 150 years ago. And in Europe till about 175 years ago!

    O Great Master!You will surely know the answer to this question!

    Can you please tell me the Indian word for slave! Just one word, O Great Master!!
    I have searched high and low, in many Indian languages, but I have not found an Indian word for slave. Words like slave and ghulam are imported words – and not Indian words.

  7. WTF
    August 28, 2009 at 2:09 am

    Here you go – slavery existing in ancient India – READ THE BOOK! Plenty of references pre Muslim, & be honest they’ve been there for way over a 1000 years – how far back do you need to go? 9 millions slaves in India before the BRITISH outlawed it – slavery was never outlawed before that, & as I’ve mentioned who needs slaves when the repellent Hindu caste system made sure people were born into iniquity.

    BTW – no slaves in Northern Europe before the Romans – almost all African slaves sold by African Muslims – main destination – PORTUGUESE Brazil.
    As for Bannarjee – I’ve left plenty of references re the repellent, disgusting treatment of prisoners in India – 20 to a cell!!!!!!!! 4+ years before charge!!!! What a great legal system India has: lots of laws & no enforcement. 100,000s girls sold into slavery – how many prosecutions, 100,000 suicides of farmers forced by INDIA to buy GM seed – slavery in all but name. Physician heal thyself.

    http://www.indiaclub.com/shop/SearchResults.asp?ProdStock=9450
    Slavery in Ancient India & Mediavel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
    According to Sir Henry Bartle Frere (who sat on the Viceroy’s Council), there were an estimated 8 million or 9 million slaves in India in 1841. In Malabar, about 15% of the population were slaves. Slavery was abolished in both Hindu and Muslim India by the Indian Slavery Act V. of 1843.[1][80]
    http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=22824&kwd=
    prison in India
    http://www.lusakatimes.com/?p=13726
    prison in India
    http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/615394
    20 to a cell! 4 years & not charged! 466 years to clear case backlog!

    It’s clear you’re still wandering off your initial points, & my response that racism, or community cohesion! is & has always been endemic on a global basis. I’m still not aware of any other families being forced out of NI – are you?

    The key point is – did you ever read why the NI families felt that way? NAH! Try & find it. Also what the hell did India do to stop global slavery – rien!

    If you respond, at least make it lucid – this has taken me 15 minutes to find – it’s hardly a life’s work – gross condesencion makes you look foolish.

  8. August 28, 2009 at 7:27 am

    WTF –

    Your name is very apt. You continue to talk without truth and facts. You have linked a Ugandan article as representative of Indian prisons.I think you need to understand that the word slavery – which has been distorted by the West – deliberately.

    Human Capture (and Re-Capture), Kidnap, Sale, Re-sale, State Protection of Slavery, Trade, Organized Markets are the markers and define slavery. Such a system has never existed in India – and no one, but no one, has found any evidence of that!

    To tar India’s anti-slavery record, the definition of slavery is muddied and illegal practices which went against acceptable legal and social norms and practices are taken as ‘evidence’ of slavery.

    Coming to prison, prisoners and imprisonment, you will find that India has the lowest crime ratios, prisoners, police-to-people ratio, a very high guns-to-people ratio and low death sentences.
    The Indic model which is evidenced on the laws of Lipit Ishtar, the Hitties legal systems to the Arthashastra of Kautilya Chanakya. In India, till the advent of the Desert Bloc in India – with the brief Islamic rule from 1200-1400 (the Slave Dynasty, the Khiljis and Tuglaks), to the muddled Indo-Saracenic Moghuls to the downright asuric colonial rule. In spite of this, the Indian system has managed a low crime, low prisoner, low capital sentence, low police regime – which is unique in the world.
    Maybe you should open your mind before you open your …

  9. Dani
    August 29, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    the author of this article is realy stupid… Here in romania the gypsies are forcing their kids to marry when they are 8-9 years old, and forced to ‘consume’ the wadding (to have sex – is a must)! they don’t pay taxes! they are a minority but still they comite more crimes then the majority, most of them don’t even bother to register their kids when they are born so many don’t even have IDs, they are selling their kids for 500-1000 euros and probably most of them became oragan donors or sex slaves. The gypsies are not saints like you want to make us belive, I know because I live between them every single day; they don’t have a sence of country they go where they can benefit the most.

    Now what do you want us to do? to work all day and to give our money to them so they can live their normandic life stile? there are many many romanians that are very poor but they work all day (for 150-200 euros/day or even less)
    they are free to go if they feel disremenated here, they are european citizens.. look in Ireland, UK, Italy, Spain, France.. everywhere they go they make trobules, no one wants them…
    They are not the indigenous people so if they don’t like it here, if they don’t want to integrate or to work they should go back home in India cause there they won’t be discreminated 😉
    If they want our respect they will have to earn it by staring to work, to do something for this country not only to take the benefits, and to be helped by the people or by the state.

    Btw most of the gypsies here (the ones are integrated in our society) are christians and are respected ok? I work with a gypsie girl (she feels 100% romanian) but when she sees a normandic style gypsie she’s like ‘look at those **** gypsies, why can’t they be normal’

    I assume you’re indian maybe you should check this video : an indian kills his son’s wife because she’s BLACK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2x3nfs5RZY

    You indians want equalitty with the big boys (whites, asians) but when it’s comes to little ones (blacks, amerindians aboregians etc) you are disreminating them… indian hypocrisy I’d might say…the hindu people are by far the most racist in the world!!
    btw how many christians (and/or muslims) where burned alive in India this week, just because they were different from the majority?

  10. WTF
    September 2, 2009 at 1:33 am

    Wow thanks for bringing all this to my attention Dani

    Thanks to our “Western Media” we are never allowed to know the torture & ethnic cleansing of Christians – because I guess “Christians” don’t control the media – & anything that would countermand the directive the West & Christians are responsible for all the world’s evils is therefore never published.

    Anuraag, you’ve exposed yourself as a Hindu/Sikh bigot. You attack the Irish for helping remove the Hindu Romani & Sinti – without extreme violence, yet happily ignore Indian mass murder & ethnic cleansing of Indian Christians – many of whom claim ancestory of nearky 2000 years.

    That was what your post was all about. Let’s forget about your racist hatred of your Muslim bretheren ( most of whom were converts); your racist debasement of news from Uganda ( which can also be found anywhere!!!), the fact that you consider being born into a slave based pariah caste system not slavery; the vast numbers of young girls sold into slavery in India today; & your contemptible belief in an Indian justice system despite all practical evidence to the contrary .

    Everything you complain about happens in India far more! How many Dalits marry Brahmins in arranged marriage India? Even in Sikhism – supposed to replace caste systems they still exist today. I have the privelege of knowing many Sikhs – they told me!

    How many Hindus marry outside of their religion – & what exactly is the reaction of their family?

    I thank heaven, that India is changing – & that small minded people like you will not for much longer, continue this ignorant twisted barbarism.

    Can you truly not see your hypocrisy??????

    I’ll finish by letting you know why I’m so appalled by the ignorance you spread. A close family member – not a hindu, or an Indian, set up their own charity to take back Nepalese slave girls from India more than 10 years ago. I know first hand about Indian law – & how much it costs for it not to matter.

    http://christianpersecutionindia.blogspot.com/2009/06/hindu-extremists-burn-three-christian.html
    http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090826/candle-light-homage-paid-to-orissa-christian-martyrs-on-1st-anniv/index.html
    http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=16182&geo=2&size=A

  11. January 24, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    They will never mention how after before or during the period of 1500-1700 when it was legal to hunt the gypsies or after World War Two (during 250,000 or more were killed by Hitler)that the Roma gypsies have not been allowed to enter schools, this is why many of them resort to begging etc.It is pure racial and religious discrimination. The monster in the mirror as of late is actually racial since these gypsies have created websites trying to assimilate saying they will convert but things will not change. Racially, it is more suitable to the White Italians to keep the dark Hindu gypsies as un schooled street peddlers living in camps, then they can say whatever they want “the gypsies are just a sore in our community” “they gypsies are a backwards high crime group though statistics have shown their crime stats are very low even with their horrible conditions” it is too depressing. The Roma gypsies (Roma comes from Rama) fled Moghul invasions into Rajasthan. They are Rajasthanis.

  12. January 24, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    ROMA GYPSIES HAVE NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO ENTER SCHOOLS IN MOST OF EUROPE! They will never mention how after before or during the period of 1500-1700 when it was legal to hunt the gypsies or after World War Two that the Roma gypsies have not been allowed to enter schools, this is why many of them resort to living in camp grounds & having to peddle! The two young innocent 12 yr old Rajasthani girls (gypsy girls) killed in July 2008 on the beach with peaceful onlookers they were trying to sell hand made jewlery and it became a circus for the beach goers to kill them in humane cold blooded style! 2 girls, 12 yrs old!!

    It is pure racial and religious discrimination. The monster in the mirror as of late is actually racial since these gypsies have created websites trying to assimilate saying they will convert but things will not change. Racially, it is more suitable to the White Italians to keep the dark Hindu gypsies as un schooled street peddlers living in camps, then they can say whatever they want “the gypsies are just a sore in our community” “they gypsies are a backwards high crime group though statistics have shown their crime stats are very low even with their horrible conditions” it is too depressing. The Roma gypsies (Roma comes from Rama) fled Moghul invasions into Rajasthan. They are Rajasthanis.

  13. February 4, 2010 at 10:42 am

    It’s interesting to note that when slavery did enter India it was during time of Muslims invasions per article History of Slavery-Indian subcontinent. Slave trade was a big part of Judaism and Islamic religion. Unknowing Hindus became victims of this slave trade brought on by Muslims and by thousands were sent to Afghanistan -Hindu Kusht mountains in Afghanistan are where there skulls lie.

  14. February 4, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Yes … that is indeed very interesting!

    The largest concentrations of Muslims in South Asia (incidentally, the largest in the world) are in North West, (Pakistan, Kashmir) East (Bangla Desh and West Bengal) South (Kerala) and West (Konkan Coast upto Gujarat).

    These were major gateways to India in history – and interestingly, subject to raids, but not conquest. The record of religious conversions at sword-point is also lesser in these regions.

    So, what made so many people convert to Islam!

    The common ‘Desert Bloc’ theory trotted out is that the ‘Hindu’ caste system ‘forced’ the ‘untouchables’ to ’embrace’ Islam.

    This implies a monolithic and egalitarian Islamic India – which is not true. This is also belied by the number of conversions in the ruling ‘Hindu’ class! After all, the ruling ‘Hindu’ classes did not suffer from ‘untouchability’!

    But what is true is that Islamic kingdoms had an active trade in slaves and piracy. The famed Barbarossa Brothers off the Mediterranean Coast are an excellent example of Islamic pirates. These were succeeded by Christian pirates from the West.

    This rampant piracy and enslavement of Indian populations restricted global trade – especially exports out of India. Piracy was outlawed in the West only in the 1860-1900 period through a series of agreements between pirate nations of the West.

    Pirates of Indic origin were unknown in history. To cover up this absence of pirates from Indian economy, colonial historians painted Kanhoji Angre (Shivaji’s admiral) as a privateer and pirate, for his efforts to secure Western India coast line from Western pirates.

    Without recourse to piracy and slavery, Indic values of shubh labh; made ‘Desert Bloc’ ethics ‘attractive’ to marginally ethical people – economically affected by shrinkage in Indian exports due to slave raids and piracy. Indian ship manufacturing centres were world leaders (see my 1857 post). Hence, ‘traders’ (especially slave traders) from the world over came to India shipyards – centred around Kerala, Gujarat and Chittagong.

    Pirates and slave traders as vectors of this insidious ethic are usually not factored, analysed or discussed. But slavery and loot are the two elephants in the Desert Bloc room which needs to be recognized, examined – and understood.

  15. Galeo Rhinus
    February 5, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Sita – Excellent observation.

    Anuraag – excellent analysis.

    Without recourse to piracy and slavery, Indic values of shubh labh; made ‘Desert Bloc’ ethics ‘attractive’ to marginally ethical people.

    You make an important observation here. In fact – I believe that modern India has embraced ‘Desert Bloc’ ethics – and the marginally ethical people use phrases such as शुभ लाभः to maintain a facade of Indic ethics.

  16. February 6, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Galeo – Your rather jaundiced view of modern India is rather absolutist – which while not wrong, is unrealistic. You must also view it through the prism of prevailing ethical norms and ‘given’ systems.

    You must also factor that the Indic system is now unnamed, subconscious and partially forgotten – and not explicit.

    Hence to measure a polity, society against such a system is pointless – and self defeating.

  17. February 6, 2010 at 10:10 am

    What the author above fails to mention regarding Christians in India is that 30 million Christians reside in India. They were also once Hindu and have been converted by aggressive missionaries who are given full permissions in India to covert the poor convert any convert all (UK divide rule policy is still in effect in India today and has been since they left!) There is no such thing as a Hindu missionairy since Hinduism does not focus on conversions by any means! India has a Muslim/Catholic Congress since time of British. Please see Facts of Indira Gandhi Topix Forum in Google. She was not born a Gandhi and instead she was a Parsi (line of Muslim Parsis) and married to Feroze Khan. Rajiv and Rahul Khans married to President of Congress Sonia Khan (since she is married to Rajiv) whose history is with the Catholic church and she was once on payroll for Russia KGB. The proof is provided that this anti Hindu Congress is behind all of this aggressive missionairy work and has been since time of British as well as the creation of hundreds of new mosques with Hindu temple money! When the day comes Hindu missionairies are converting Catholics or Christians or atheists in Europe South America or elsewhere, please share. These missionairies make the impoverished Hindus step on Hindu Gods as means of conversion.

  18. Galeo Rhinus
    February 6, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    About my absolutist view. You are absolutely correct – but it is in a frame of reference to what India can be, based on what India was. There is no question in my mind – that the *goal* in my mind is clear, firm and uncompromisable.

    Given this goal – the path to the goal is negotiable. Alterable, malleable and flexible. However, in order for the path to be flexible – and yet be some sort of a roadmap – I believe that the starting points and the end points need to have a clear definition.

    It is in this context – that I view modern India in absolute terms.

    I understand your concerns… an absolute view – is often associated with uncompromising ideas and doctrine. Fair enough. But – let me be very clear – the path ahead will need to be full of compromises based on what you describe as India’s current state of the system – which is “unnamed, subconscious and partially forgottend and unexplicit.”

    However – measuring the present India with what it needs to be – can be self-defeatist – when it is placed on a placard and adervertised to the world.

    You have misinterpreted my diagnosis with what I would consider as a cure…

  19. answertoyourquestion
    August 20, 2010 at 7:44 am

    anuraag

    baat karne se koi fayidha nahin. yah berahem gOre.
    yah baat karne ke laayak nahin. hame kuch karna hai. phir se yugantar aur gadar party banana hai. tum ne history ki poora puzzle solve kiya hai . zaise ki krishna ne kaha thaa ” poora picture dekhO , aaadha nahin”. bahut kuch ho raha hai.
    hame zaldi hee kuch karna hai. varna 1984 george orwell ki kahani ki tarah hi ban ne waali hai. yeh swine flu ka chakkar
    muzhe dar lag rahi hai ki ye koi bioterror attack nahin hai.
    1976 me inhone aisi hee koshish kee thee. aur muzhe lagta hai ki first world war ke baad zo 1919 spanish flu me karodo bharatiy mar gaye the. unko maar diya gaya aur usko spanish flu batha diya gaya. warna battle hardy bharatiy world war 1 ke baad hi british ko hara dethe. kya tum ne hpv vaccine ke baare me suna hai. gardisal vaccine zise kahte hai. cervical cancer se bachaane ke liye. yah gore log india ke tribal areas me population control kar ne ke liye. choti bachiyo ko hpv vaccine karva rahe hai. zo asal me birth control vaccine hai. hame kuch karna hoga. kuch bada. kyu ki 2010 ke census me biometric data bhi ikkatta kar rahe hai. aur anti terrorist laws bhi aane waale hai zo hamare privacy ke nazar rakhne waale hai. agar ye poora hogaya tho shaayad anti government kuch bhi karna mushkil hoga.
    ek “big brother” goverment aaane waala hai. ye ek critical period of time hai. zis par hamara saara bhavishya depend hoga.

  20. aconcernedpersona
    December 8, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    You dont seem to realize, this is northern ireland, a territory still at war, where 2 communities and people have been at war for 800 years, an enviroment where you can get shot for your religion or blown up, where the army patrol streets and and psni/ruc can arrest you for being in the wrong area, where parimilitary groups have huge influence and drive anyone who is not there own out of the areas, just look what the UDA did with catholics in the 60s, ireland was not involved whatsoever in ww2 and pretty much shares no european history with the rest of europe, it was never controlled by facism, communism or fought in any world wars, its not even european, to talk about it like its in the heart of europe and shares europes history is wrong and false, now this is primary information as the community of gypsies which was attacked entered a ‘feud’ with a loyalist community nearby when the gypsies burgeled houses in that loyalist estate, northenr ireland isnt the place where these burgalars would have gotten a slap on the wrist and let go (like in britain or europe) a parilmilitary group set about on there own ‘justice’ by forcing them out, this is what happens in northern ireland its moved away ALOT from that but thats what happened here. and trying to compare this to india or israel or europe or whatever is wrong, this is what happens in british occupyied ireland where the native population is even burnt out there homes. the gypsies shoulds have picked somewhere nicer to live, (ie. south england, france, italy etc.) why would you choose to live in ‘northern ireland’? a territory of hatred and intolerence because of government and military mistakes?

  21. June 1, 2011 at 6:57 pm

  1. June 18, 2009 at 9:07 pm
  2. July 14, 2009 at 9:28 am
  3. February 7, 2013 at 7:11 am

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