Home > India, Politics, Religion, USA > India on the way to police state

India on the way to police state


Freedom, imprisonment, racism, development, genocide

What is the difference between a ‘banana republic’ and the Anglo-Saxon democracies? None. People disappear. Anyway.

US of A, for instance, has the world’s largest prison population! Maybe, my being from a backward country, stops me from understanding this great ‘progress’ that these countries seemed to have made!

Extra Police and excess laws create criminial behaviour. (Cartoon by Nick Anderson. Courtesy - The Cartoonist Group.). Click for larger image.

Extra Police and excess laws create criminial behaviour. (Cartoon by Nick Anderson. Courtesy - The Cartoonist Group.). Click for larger image.

Some 30,000 people are now employed exclusively to listen in on phone conversations and other communications in the United States. And yet no one in Army intelligence noticed that Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had been making a series of strange threats at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where he trained. The father of the Nigerian “Christmas bomber” reported his son’s radicalism to the U.S. Embassy. But that message never made its way to the right people in this vast security apparatus. The plot was foiled only by the bomber’s own incompetence and some alert passengers. (via Zakaria: Why America Overreacted to 9/11 – Newsweek).

The sight of the West, strutting as a protector of freedom on the global stage is a hoax. How can the West have a problem with Native American tribes (aka ‘Red Indians’) and the Aborigines – if there are none left. The West which has the highest levels of prison populations in the world – raucously reminds the world of lessons in freedom.

A benign abuse of police powers! (Cartonist - Patrick Chappatte, from - NZZ am Sonntag; Courtesy- caglecartoons.com) Click or larger image.

A benign abuse of police powers! (Cartonist - Patrick Chappatte, from - NZZ am Sonntag; Courtesy- caglecartoons.com) Click or larger image.

India needs to end this charade

In the last 250 years, just 5 countries succeeded with Republican democracy without a significant breakdown in their first 50 years.

Of the five, Switzerland (pop. 80 lakhs), Israel (pop. 75 lakhs) and Singapore (pop. 50 lakhs) are tiny countries to generate any valuable data, models, norms or precedents.That leaves the world with just USA and India.

In any other day, age and society, the Republican-Democracy model would have been laughed off – and not studied by millions.

Indians needs is start working on a exit route of this quagmire of Desert Bloc polity.

Way out of this to Bharat-tantra.

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  1. Jindal
    September 9, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    The US of A has the largest prison population because law enforcement works. I ran into an Indian guy in Saudi Arabia who said rape stats there were pretty low which proves the wonders of barbaric sharia laws like amputation and stoning punishments. First off, marrying four women and keeping them as slaves under a veil in a personal harem itself is rape (both mental and physical). A lower than average ratio of people in prison / population is an indicator of state sponsorship, support, or no control over criminal activity and corruption. And thanks, but no thanks, neither sharia nor manu smriti make any sense nor are they practical solutions to 21st century law enforcement. BTW, in case you are proposing a China model, I hear that China executes three times as many prisoners every year than the rest of the world combined. Having lived in both, a police state is much better and safer than an anarchy. Switzerland and Singapore were unique modern political experiments in democracy which would have been impractical to implement in larger nation-states. Singapore with a tiny population of 4 million people generates more tourism revenue than India and its GDP is more than entire Pakistan! Israel ranks third worldwide in filing patents. Switzerland is ranked as one of the five best places to live. What’s the point of a non-police state where you can get away with just about anything? Only criminals are going to be afraid of police states and they should be. The resounding success of Israel, Switzerland, and Singapore proves the success of those models. Copying successful models is up for grabs.

  2. September 10, 2010 at 8:13 am

    On law and order, a complete analysis is linked in the article. Of course, your ‘analysis’ is a standard Western response.

    Upto you …

  3. Jindal
    September 10, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Study each sentence of my response for what it says, study facts and figures, and then refute intelligently without some kind of Paki style baseless labeling or bias as in “it must be the West”. I have also read your other post: http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/crime-gun-ownership-and-india/ which is perhaps the most bizarre explanation ever – Hittites & Gandhi, lol~! I have not argued that the US of A (or West) does not have the largest prison population. I’ve said it is so because law enforcement works. If law enforcement had actually worked in India and Pakistan, a third of India’s population and half of Pakistan’s population would be behind bars. Court cases go on for decades (not months or years) and corruption rules. With the best IT population in the world, can’t India throw in a Linux farm, digitize criminal records and fingerprints to make the judicial system actually work? After the Brits left, India and Pakistan just continued with large ineffective and backward bureaucracies. That instead of reinventing with reforms or simply copying the Singapore model of economic development and law enforcement. Not in 60+ years and not now. Status quo remains and let’s just push it like the British built railway until it breaks down under the weight of an ever exploding population. Why blame the status quo when it is so easy to blame the West for anything? Ground reality is the best indicator as against dozens of links. As Gandhi had reiterated over and over again, nothing beats the truth.

  4. September 10, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Jindal – Thanks for spirited contibutions.

    I have answered all your points in great detail. Including the Great Gift of The British – The Indian Railway System in other posts. A simple search from the seach box wll do the trick.

    There is unfortunately, nothing, but nothing, that you bring to the table in terms of fresh perspective.

    This blog is 2ndlook. If you want a 2ndlook – it is there. For your kind of analysis, any standard publication will do it.

  5. Jindal
    September 10, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    And yet again, no intelligent rebuttal here. China was poorer than India just three decades ago but it proudly advertises a high-speed rail like none other in the world. They have talked about plans to build it all the way up to London with a travel time of less than two days. In contrast, many Indians only complain about the railway of the Brits, one way or another. Why? No five-year maglev plans yet? Stop insulting and make a clearcut point if you have one. You can run but you can’t hide from the truth.

  6. Jindal
    September 15, 2010 at 2:23 am

    Switzerland has a good number of guns and yet the the lowest crime rate in the world. They say the key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself and if you don’t have the tools to do that, then you’re going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away (including corrupt despotic regimes).

    Take a look — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g

  7. September 15, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Switzerland is great country! Is that the point you are making?

    Three things before say something, Jindal.

    1. Data …
    2. Data …
    3. Data!

    Where is your data about anything!

  8. Jindal
    September 15, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    1. Switzerland population: 7.6 million (including 1.2+ million foreigners).
    2. Publicly-owned firearms: 2 million, including 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.
    3. Homicide rate: 1.2 per 100,000; Robbery rate: 36 per 100,000.

    Almost half the crimes committed were by non-resident foreigners, whom locals call “criminal tourists.” Being one of the most popular tourist destination as it is, the stats clearly indicate that the crime rate of Switzerland citizens is way below average. Data for other statements I’ve made in comments to your blog entries can be easily googled.

    Freedom (first and last) includes the ability to defend. The first shot in the Independence Struggle of India was fired in 1857 by Mangal Pandey. The point isn’t whether Switzerland is a great country or not. What I’ve argued is that your “The West which has the highest levels of prison populations in the world – raucously reminds the world of lessons in freedom” has no basis.

    Good governance is key to successful nation building. There is no alternative to that. Many countries in the East routinely trample human rights for which [conveniently] no real stats are maintained. There is no point in whining about the so-called ills of the West as it admits and does its own due diligence to control crime. At least it is not in denial mode!

  9. September 15, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Jindal – I am glad that you are finally putting some data with your opinions.

    I have covered the Swiss ‘phenomenon’! If you do put Switzerland in the search box, you will get much more data and perspective.

    I have also linked data on crime stats in India.

    I have also linked in some posts the immigration volume into India. You might be interested to know immigration volumes into India. Of course, India is not xenophobic or superior enough to break down crime between resident Indians and ‘foreign’ crime.

    My theses in simple words:

    India has a number of problems – but these problems are NOT what the West diagnoses as problems. And some of us ‘Westernized’ Indians and some of you NRIs think we know everything. Time to take a 2ndlook.

    Also, the West is not the Promised Land that some of us ‘Westernized’ Indians and some of you NRIs think it is. These issues are complex – need facts, analysis and re-interpretation. Let us stay with that.

  10. Jindal
    September 15, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    First off, in the world of blogging, if any comments do not reflect reality then the onus is on the blogger to google search and refute with ‘clarity’ by providing hard links and hard data — not say just search through my blog and you will find some other vague notions here and there about this and that… Secondly, I’ve recommended self-introspection instead of furiously framing the West. I’ve not stated in any of my comments that the “West is the Promise Land”. Better to not put words in the mouths of commentators. My quick take has been to look at things pragmatically based on reality, compare apples to oranges, without a soft cornered bias toward all things Indian regardless of how bad some of them might actually be.

    Satish Shetty, brother of a friend of mine abroad, was a leading Right to Information (RTI) activist who exposed many land grabbing scams worth thousands of crores. Sadly he was brutally murdered in broad daylight with sharp weapons. The culprit? A real estate czar and soon to be billionaire by the name of Virendra Mhaiskar. My friend has done everything in his power to go through legal channels, including providing recordings of death threats from one of the suspect’s offices. India has an RTI now, but it can be subverted for criminals who can go home free (as in corruption rules), and another martyr simply goes down as an unsung hero — then we need to ask what kind of law enforcement is this?
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/article80222.ece

    Syed Masood, Seema Razzaki, et al, pulled off the largest ponzi scheme fraud in the history of India. They looted hundreds of thousands of people (including some of my relatives) of thousands of crores of rupees. His wife Chand Masood has been busy buying up luxury condos in Florida. Seema Razzaki has been recently released from custody and I’m sure they are also working on Syed’s safe passage to Dubai.
    http://hubpages.com/hub/City-Limouzines

    Bernie Madoff, operator of the largest Ponzi scheme in history is behind bars today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

    So to those who have been looking at the prism from the bottom up, it perhaps appears only square. Time to change angles and take a 2ndlook?

  11. September 15, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    First off, in the world of blogging, if any comments do not reflect reality then the onus is on the blogger to google search and refute with ‘clarity’ by providing hard links and hard data — not say just search through my blog and you will find some other vague notions here and there about this and that…

    Jindal – This blogger does just that. Search and ye shall find.

    If there is something new that you bring to table good. You are welcome. If you bring old questions and expect me to answer them, recalibrate your expectations. Like I said I am not here to convince anyone.

    It is a good idea to bring something to table. You are only trying to take away something from the table – and bring some rather inedible stuff to the table.

    Secondly, I’ve recommended self-introspection instead of furiously framing the West. I’ve not stated in any of my comments that the “West is the Promise Land”. Better to not put words in the mouths of commentators. My quick take has been to look at things pragmatically based on reality, compare apples to oranges, without a soft cornered bias toward all things Indian regardless of how bad some of them might actually be.

    Good fer you. Like I said, I am not convincing … dont convince me!

    Satish Shetty, brother of a friend of mine abroad, was a leading Right to Information (RTI) activist who exposed many land grabbing scams worth thousands of crores. Sadly he was brutally murdered in broad daylight with sharp weapons. The culprit? A real estate czar and soon to be billionaire by the name of Virendra Mhaiskar. My friend has done everything in his power to go through legal channels, including providing recordings of death threats from one of the suspect’s offices. India has an RTI now, but it can be subverted for criminals who can go home free (as in corruption rules), and another martyr simply goes down as an unsung hero — then we need to ask what kind of law enforcement is this?
    http://www.thehindu.com/news/article80222.ece

    I have put in some 30 pages – about 30,000 words of my ideas on law enforcement. This incident that you write about does not change my opinion. Search and ye shall find.

    Syed Masood, Seema Razzaki, et al, pulled off the largest ponzi scheme fraud in the history of India. They looted hundreds of thousands of people (including some of my relatives) of thousands of crores of rupees. His wife Chand Masood has been busy buying up luxury condos in Florida. Seema Razzaki has been recently released from custody and I’m sure they are also working on Syed’s safe passage to Dubai.
    http://hubpages.com/hub/City-Limouzines

    Sad isn’t it! My guide on this St.PT Barnum. A fool and his money are soon parted. There is a sucker born every minute.

    Bernie Madoff, operator of the largest Ponzi scheme in history is behind bars today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

    So to those who have been looking at the prism from the bottom up, it perhaps appears only square.

    From what I have read about him, I rather like the guy – Bernie Madoff. Poor chap! I cannot understand why he is behind bars. I have written about him – extensively. Go, find.

    Hint – Two years ago I wrote about the Lehman-Paulson Scam. There are books being written about this scam now! Now there is a huge corruption meter that I have set up. You can vote there. Add your voice. It is the world’s first corruption meter. You can suggest some scams also if you like – with links and data. Dont expect this blogger to do research for your satisfaction.

  12. Jindal
    September 15, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    I can picture your psychological profile a lot better now. You have an internal battle but you are actually a slave — it is in your blood. Within your subconscious, your are a rat afraid of the white cat. That’s why you want to like the white man who is a fraud, and coldly justify (one way or another) the rights of some poor Indians in India being denied. With all that overflowing sympathy for Madoff, and your cruel cold-blooded indifference with an attitude of eat dust suckers towards retired folks in your own city who might have lost all their hard-earned life savings (for their lack of education while living in an anarchy), no one would (or rather should) take your body to the hospital, or even drop a tear, if someone like you were hit dead by a bus tomorrow. You are trash anyways.

    The wise know that there is no shame in admittance followed by correction. Somehow you just don’t get it and stay in denial mode. So let me tell you pointblank – you are way too retarded to have a decent online conversation. If you’re a twisted blogger who stubbornly acts like a ******, just won’t to listen to anything, and foolishly continues to beat his own drum, then the onus is on me as an erudite commentator to recognize your IQ level and leave your brainless blabber alone. Carry on posting your meaningless **** away as you wish. Take care – I mean it.

    [Moderated]

  13. September 17, 2010 at 11:11 am

    I must be doing something right … seriously, right!

    To get comments like this! This is just a blog … right?

    Why would any anyone, unless really provoked, bother to write stuff like this! I am just a harmless, powerless, blogger! How could unpromoted, ideas cause such offence!

    Especially, if they are such bad ideas, as this commentator swears they are!

  14. Jindal
    September 17, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    There are many people like me online who openly call a spade, well, a spade. And I mean what I say. No two ways about it. Take it at face value. If it’s just a blog, then why the meticulous moderation of comments as if it is going to hurt the feelings of some **** (and I hope you aren’t one)? There are millions of blogs out there and commentators routinely rip hypocrisy in posts with logic and data. And that’s a good thing. Also while you are free to post whatever you like, why turn around with an inclination to suppress comments? Freedom is not a one way street. Try to be a little more open.

    BTW, meaning of censored words from my previous comment:
    ***** — a stupid or despicable man or boy
    blabber — meaningless chatter
    None of these are considered offensive four-letter words in contemporary English.

    > How could unpromoted, ideas cause such offence!

    Are you an Internet newbie? The Internet furthers globalization and blogs are effective in promotion of ideas to vast audiences. Welcome to the 21st century.

  15. September 18, 2010 at 7:12 am

    There are many people like me online who openly call a spade, well, a spade. And I mean what I say. No two ways about it.

    I only wish that You were clear about what You say!

    Take it at face value. If it’s just a blog, then why the meticulous moderation of comments as if it is going to hurt the feelings of some **** (and I hope you aren’t one)?

    I see no reason to allow You to continue with profanity, abusive language, and invective. This is the first time, that we will have to use the 3-strikes-and-You-are-out rule. It will take one more profanity, abusive language, and invective from You. After that your comments at 2ndlook and Quicktake will be deleted – to forever lead their ghostly life in cyberspace.

    There are millions of blogs out there and commentators routinely rip hypocrisy in posts with logic and data. And that’s a good thing.

    Good. So, there are millions of blogs – and You have platforms where commentators routinely rip hypocrisy in posts with logic and data.Go ahead and be my guest at some other site. Here You will get as much respect as what You give. Freeloaders are distinctly unwelcome.

    Also while you are free to post whatever you like, why turn around with an inclination to suppress comments? Freedom is not a one way street. Try to be a little more open.

    I particularly like this bit of commentary. It is so deliciously low …

    I am not seeking any freedom from You. In turn You can be as Free as you like. With whatever You like. Though I doubt if You have two ideas to rub together. And write as many posts as You like, crazed with profanity, abusive language, and invective as You like. You dont owe me Freedom. I dont owe You any Freedom whatsoever.

    If You find this irksome, take Your self somewhere else. If You cant stay within these broad limitations.

    BTW, meaning of censored words from my previous comment:
    ***** — a stupid or despicable man or boy
    blabber — meaningless chatter
    None of these are considered offensive four-letter words in contemporary English.

    Like I said … You have already got two chances. One more .. and You are out!

  1. March 6, 2011 at 5:58 pm

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